John: Expect Persecution
Pastor Fletcher preaches from John 15:18-16:4 about Jesus's warnings to the disciples about persecution. Discussion points: Persecution helps us to trust Christ more; if we are living like Christ we will receive a mixture of responses from the world, where some will hate us and some will love us; if we live for the approval of others we can die by the opinion of others.
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Scripture reader: [John 15:18-16:4] If the world hates, you know that it has hated me before, it hated you. If you were of the world, the world would love you as its own. But because you are not of the world, but I chose you out of the world. Therefore, the world hates you. Remember the word that I said to you, a servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. But all these things they will do to you on account of my name because they do not know him who sent me.
If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have been guilty of sin. But now they have no excuse for their sin. Whoever hates me hates my father also, if I had not done among them, the works that no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. But now they have seen and hated both me and my father. But the word that is written in their law must be fulfilled. They hated me without a cause. But when the helper comes whom I will send to you from the Father, the spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father. He will bear witness about me and you also will bear witness because you have been with me from the beginning.
I have said all these things to you to keep you from falling away. They will put you out of the synagogues. Indeed, the hour is coming when whoever kills you will think He is offering service to God And they will do these things because they have not known the father nor me. But I have said these things to you that when their hour comes, you may remember that I told them to you.
This is the word of the Lord. Thanks be to God.
Preacher: It seems like the year 2015 was a much simpler time or at least people were less angry. But if you could jump in a time machine, you would find that 2015 people weren't less angry. They were just angry at far stupider things than we are today. I don't know who remembers. I don't know if you're old enough to remember, but I don't know who remembers the great persecution of the Red Starbucks cups of 2015. This was, this was a massive movement for Christians. We were just really hurt about Starbucks changing their branding to the cups being colored all red without any decoration on it. It was all over all of the news sources that Starbucks hates Christians. Starbucks hates Jesus.
A real life tweet. Hear this a real life tweet. "Starbucks removed Christmas from their cups because they hate Jesus." This was all the rage in 2015. The simpler times we used to live in. Never mind the fact that they still had a Christmas blend coffee. They still sold Merry Christmas gift cards, France. This was not persecution. This was people who were experiencing a secularizing America looking for persecution everywhere. And I think that we have to be careful because much of what Americans call persecution does not compare with what the world historically and what the world modernly experiences as persecution.
What followers of Jesus are experiencing as persecution even to this day, Jesus says in his passage, John 16 verse one, he says, I have said all these things to you to keep you from falling away. Jesus wants us to know and to be warned that persecution awaits all Christians. This is something that happens all the time. Throughout the the Bible. We see the Bible talking about persecution. Jesus doesn't want his disciples to be caught off guard. He knows that if they're caught off guard, it might cause them to lose faith. And so he's preparing them.
So Americans, we might have some made up controversies such as the Starbucks Cup. I've also seen some Americans be a jerk and then receive criticism for being a jerk and then call it persecution because of their faith. I don't know if you've ever experienced this before, but it's like, hey, that's not because you're a Christian. That's because you're a jerk or it's because you, you don't have any social intelligence whatsoever. And you are just being kind of dumb in that moment. And that's not persecution though. What is persecution is being experienced all throughout the world and some in America too. We'll get to that in just a moment.
But let me just explain what persecution has looked like historically, for Christians, the early church was ruthlessly persecuted by Rome until the conversion of Constantine and 312 ad until then, early Christians were afraid to let people into their churches until they were sure that they were following Christ. Because what would happen is people would come into the churches, they would look around, take note of everyone there and then they would go slaughter them or put them in prison. And so what the early church had to do before they would let someone come to the worship gathering, they would make them sit through two years or three years of catechismal classes to make sure that they were serious about this following Jesus, serious about their faith before they were able to come into the church. They wanted to make sure that people understood who Jesus was because it was going to risk everything if they didn't.
Many of the men who are sharing this meal with Jesus in the upper room that we're reading the story from, they were martyred for their faith. They would lose their lives for following Jesus. Even today. There are plenty of nations where persecution is still occurring. We've heard stories about these things but they are true and they're still happening in Somalia. You can be, you can be killed by your own family for converting from Islam to Christianity. In Iran. Believers risk everything to even own a Bible. Yet the stories, the whispers from the mission field is that the message of Jesus is moving forward in Iran more quickly than in most places of the world.
In China, Unregistered Christians are subject to severe punishment. Our church supports missionaries in a country that we can't even name because it would be putting them at too much risk if we were to name the country that these, that these missionaries are in. I've heard stories of Christians in China who would pray for persecution to come to America. Now. That sounds a bit crazy. I'm like, hey, please stop those prayers. I'm good. But why would they pray that? Is it because they hate us? No, it's because they know something that we don't know that comfort never leads to greater satisfaction in Christ. That as we have more and more comfort in the things of this world, we're less and less pushed to find our comfort and joy in Christ. And so they know that persecution actually Stokes faith, it helps us to trust in Christ more.
So let me ask you a question this morning as we listen to jesus' words on persecution. And we think about the persecuted church throughout the world and what they're experiencing. If going to church were risking your life, would you make it a priority? That's a, that's a tough question for us. It's like some of you are like, well, I barely made it here this morning. So it was risking me sleeping another hour. I'm not sure. I appreciate that. I appreciate that you were you, you, you gave up the extra hour. But if it meant giving up your, your life, because that's the reality for many believers throughout the world and throughout history that that is the risk that they were willing to run as Christians. Jesus tells us to expect persecution and while we have it pretty good in this country, ok? All things considered America, very safe place to worship. Jesus built on the foundation of, of religious freedom. This is my Memorial day, America's awesome speech here. OK?
It's a great place to be a Christian in many, many ways. We have the freedom to, to worship as we choose here. It doesn't negate the fact that Christians even in America should expect some form of persecution because when Jesus talks about persecution, well, you have to think about what persecution, isn't it? It, it's somewhere between these two extremes. OK? not, it's definitely losing your life for the gospel and it's definitely not Starbucks Cups. Ok. So it's somewhere in between. There, we have a line that goes from not persecution or persecution.
But where I'm going to draw that line is to say that persecution is this resistance that we experience to our faith. Any resistance to your faith, resistance to your beliefs, whether those be pretty subtle, because that is often the case in America that it's a resi a subtle resistance to our faith. But resistance to our faith from the outside world is what we're talking about today. Persecution.
There's often a social cost to being a Christian. You all understand this cost better than I, I'm not sure about that but, you know, I never get past the first conversation with someone without them knowing. I'm a Christian because it's like, hi, my name is Fletcher. Oh, what do you do? I'm a pastor. Would you like to talk about Jesus? No. Ok. Socially awkward moment. You know, and then they either, you know, I've, I've experienced this very subtly. It's like I used to be in a running club and we would get past that first conversation and then all of a sudden they'd be running a little bit faster than me. And it's like, ok, whatever, you know, I'll try to find someone that wants to talk to me. We don't have to talk about Jesus.
There are a lot of things that we believe as Christians that are out of step with society on the left, what we believe about gender and sexuality puts us out of step with society on the right. What we believe about caring for immigrants and refugees and all of that sort of thing puts us out of step with society and we can just go on with list after list. There's not a political party that fits Christianity. We're out of step with the current environment of the United States. It is true. And so you should experience a little bit of pushback if you do not receive any resistance to your faith. It's probably because you're still in the faith closet, so to speak because you should expect a little bit.
Jesus tells us, you know, some of us like to think of ourselves as undercover agents for God. It's like we're gonna get in there, we're gonna infiltrate the ranks, we're gonna let them know how cool we are and that Christians can have fun. And then before you know it, you're not an undercover agent for God anymore, but rather you've just assimilated to the world. And so you either live in this Christian bubble where you don't know anyone in the world is like church is my life. I only hang out with church people or you've assimilated into it or you're experiencing some subtle resistance or some outright resistance at times to your faith.
Jesus tells us to expect all this. Second Timothy chapter three, indeed, all who desire to live a godly life in Jesus Christ will be persecuted. And so church look, we live in Somerville, highly secularized area. I know that many of you have experienced resistance for your faith. And I just want you to hear jesus' message to the disciples today. He wants you to hear this. If you've experienced this, keep going, you got it, You got this. All right. He wants you to expect it. And to know that he is with you, persist, persist church. Keep going. Don't let it get you down. But know that he is delighted, know that it is an honor to suffer in the same way that he suffered.
Jesus himself, most loving man who's ever walked the earth. Very few people would debate that was hated, despised and who is he despised by the religious leaders. He was despised by those who should have recognized who he was. But yet he was still hated. And when we are hated, on account of him, we are sharing in his sufferings. And so church keep going. The world hated Jesus. You better believe it's going to hate his followers.
Verse 20 Jesus says this, remember the word I said to you, remember this church, a servant is not greater than his master. If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. And so I have two questions for us as we consider Jesus as teaching on persecution for us today in a modern age. And it's this who's doing this persecuting and how do we deal with it? Who's doing it today? How does it work? And, and, and how do we persist through persecution? All right. So let's dive in who's persecuting Christians verse 18. If the world hates you, Jesus says know that it has hated me before, it hated you.
So when Jesus is talking about this, he's, he's using the term the world. Now, when we hear the term the world, we tend to think differently about that word than they did in an ancient society. Ancient Hebrew literature often would use extremes to describe things that they don't actually mean as extremes. So when Jesus says the world, he's not talking about every single person in the world. Ok? We have to get that out of our mind here. He's, he's talking about a mindset, a generality of the way that the world lives and thinks to Jesus, this word world is a Greek word for cosmos.
And to Jesus, he has two ideas of the world. He has this idea of the world is something that all people live for. They live for the pursuit of the things of this world. It's a materialism in this world. And on the other side, Jesus is coming to declare a gospel of his kingdom. And so you have these two kingdoms, you have the kingdom of this world and the kingdom of heaven. And Jesus wants us to live for the kingdom of heaven. D A Carson defines the world as Jesus uses it as the created moral order, an act of rebellion against God.
This is described in second Corinthians chapter two. OK. So let's look at second Corinthians chapter two before we move on. What I want to point out here is when he says the world, he's not talking about every single person in the world, but instead he's talking about people in the world. people that follow the world's mindset are going to be persecuting. Second Corinthians chapter two describes who is actually those people because Jesus says in chapter two verse 15, for we are the aroma of Christ to among those who are being saved and among those who are perishing to one, a fragrance from death to death to the other, a fragrance from life to life who is sufficient for these things for. We are not like so many peddlers of God's word, but as men of sincerity, as commissioned by God in the sight of God, we speak Christ.
So what he's saying is that as Christians, we are the fragrance of Christ everywhere we go, some people are gonna think that fragrance is really stinky, repugnant death. Other people are gonna hear and smell that fragrance of Christ and they're gonna say that sounds awesome. And so if you are living your faith in such a way to where everyone you talk with thinks it smells like death. You are living it wrong because the fragrance of Christ is beautiful to, to those that God is giving the eyes to see and ears to hear.
But if you're living out the fragrance of, of Christ, you all should, should expect that some are gonna find that quite disgusting to be around. That's what Jesus prepares us for. That's what the word says. Why do some people hate the message of Jesus? Why do they find his message to smell like death? I think he tells us, he tells us in verse 25 but the word that is written in their law must be fulfilled. They hated me without cause it's, it's without cause I mean, what is there to hate about Jesus? You know, you look at the guy, he's like friend of sinners, loving people, touching the lepers. I mean, there's nothing to hate about this guy, but he goes on a little bit more and he kind of explains why they actually hate and and John chapter seven.
So back a few chapters, he says the world hates me because I testify that its works are evil. I testify that its works are evil. Jesus is confrontational. Ok, Jesus, we like to, we like to think about Jesus in different ways. But oftentimes we describe Jesus almost like a big teddy bear as someone that we love and we receive love from. But Jesus oftentimes is confronting people, he is never afraid to let people walk away from the faith. He'll come to, someone will come to be. How do I follow you? How do I, how can I inherit the kingdom of heaven? How can I be a disciple of Jesus? And he gives them the radical directions and he is not running chasing after them saying like, oh no, sorry, I'll weaken it for you a little bit. No, Jesus is not afraid to be a little controversial. He's not afraid to challenge people to really put it out there.
Jesus has this wonderful way of being offensive and confrontational while at the same time being gentle and lovely, he is both strong and gentle. And so when we move from the from living for the kingdom of this world to living for the kingdom of Heaven, there are some people who are gonna look at us and say you've switched teams, the world hates us because we've left their tribe. We no longer live for the same things that they live for. We live for a new and different purpose. We've joined the kingdom of Heaven and now we testify that the way that we used to live is evil that we don't live for that anymore. We live for God now and so we testified that their works are evil and, and we also have this humility that it's not like we're better than them. It's because Jesus has saved us and we, we want the, we want Jesus to save them also.
So Christians, they shouldn't, we shouldn't be walking into this saying I'm better than you. I found a new way to live. We should say, hey, here's good news for you too. In this message. Unfortunately, those who hate true Christians the most are often those who hated Jesus the most. It's usually not the secularizing pagans in our society that hate Christians the most. But it is the religious leaders, Jesus is known as the friend of sinners, not the friend of religious people. In fact, he is not a friend of religious people throughout the scriptures.
Very often at all, the great majority of persecution in the world has been committed by religious people, whether that be in the name of Islam or in the name of Yahweh. You see, you see Paul receive the, the 39 lashings, the 40 lashings minus 15 different times. And the reason why he's receiving this, these are a common consequence that's, that's put out by the synagogue to punish someone. And so these are probably consequences of religious leaders being doled out to Paul. Paul is receiving persecution in the name of the God, in which he follows and that he represents.
And these days you can also experience a great deal of persecution in the name of Jesus, that other people who claim to follow Jesus will dole out on those who they see as a breaking step with the way that they're living, the way that they're thinking, we see Christians insulting other Christians and, and ostracizing other Christians.
I, I have a, my, my primary seminary professor was a guy named Russell Moore. And is anybody familiar with Russell Moore? Maybe a few folks. Russell Moore was my primary seminary professor. Then he moved on to being the President of the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission for the Southern Baptist Convention. Now he's moved on again. And that's what the story is about to the editor in chief of Christianity Today Magazine.
So when he was at the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission, his job was to inform the people in his denomination about political issues and to inform the US government about what his people believed about political issues. So he took firm stances on issues such as life such as sexuality and marriage, firm stances that would be more conservative in approach. But then when it came 2016, you know, the, the glory days of 2015 being angry about stupider things no more. Once 2016 comes because Donald Trump was running for president and I'm even kind of nervous talking about this. I feel like but I just don't talk about politics like at all. Ok. So this is your first Sunday? I never like bring up politics, but this is just a great example.
Donald Trump was running for president and, and Russell Moore said, what is plain to, to most of us that Donald Trump is not qualified for public service for holding office morally that he is morally unqualified. That's all he said. He didn't say anything about his policies or anything like that. He said this man is morally unqualified for public office. He was quite condemned not by, you know, you would think that it would be the secularized people, the the non-religious people that would say who cares about morals. Let's just elect whoever we want in there. No, it was the same people that used the same argument against Bill Clinton a generation prior saying that this man is morally not qualified for public office that condemned Russell Moore for saying that Donald Trump is morally not qualified for public office, but this is not what lost him his job. Ok.
So this got people angry. He was in hot water, but what lost him? His job is he had become privy to the fact that there were hundreds of sexual abuse cases in his denomination that went unreported and that were covered up and swept under the rug. And so as he started speaking about those things, that's what made the leaders really angry. You see, they will hate you because you testify that their deeds are evil. And as he speaks out, these things men in power saw to it that he would not keep his job at the Ethics and Religious Liberty Commission. So he had to leave.
They hated me because I testified that their deeds are evil. They will put you out of the synagogues. Jesus says, indeed the hour is coming. When whoever kills you will think he is offering service to God. Is the religious people often who are persecuting the followers of Christ the most. They mean, well, oftentimes this means that those who persecute Christians think they're actually offering a service to God.
And when you're persecuted from a secular religion, ok? Because really politics has become a religion and there's a secular religion that says this is the way that you live so that people will accept you. And when you're persecuted from that secular religion, they think that they are serving their God in essence, whatever they might call it. They think that they're doing a good thing. They will put you out of the synagogue, they'll kick you out of the club, they'll cancel you, they won't invite you anymore. They'll try to hurt your career or your personal life. And to live a life of faith in Jesus means that this is the risk and Jesus wants us to withstand it and to persist, to persist. All right.
So, so point two, how to deal with persecution. How do we deal with being criticized or ostracized or slightly snubbed for our faith there are a lot of things I could talk about here. I could, I could talk about how you should be encouraged that you face the same persecution that Jesus face. And it means that you're, you're treated the same as they treated Jesus. And that would be a great way to apply this. I could talk about the benefits of suffering and how the Bible tells us that suffering produces good character and a, and a hope in God.
But here's the, the main way I want to apply, apply it to us today because I think it's universally applicable to other things too. Maybe you're not facing much resistance for your faith. But this is something that you need to hear anyways, it's this, if you live for the approval of people, you will die by the approval of people. If you live in what the Bible calls the fear of man, the fear of man can lift you up high and it can bury you in the ground. And if you live in fear of people, when you are criticized for your faith, it will hurt drastically. But this is true in all other areas of life as well.
When I was in college and seminary, I spent my summers working at camps. OK? I loved it. I had a lot of energy back in my twenties and it was a great time. Ok? The, the first camps I worked at were were for a group called Royal Ambassadors. It was like church boy scouts. Ok. anybody familiar with Royal Ambassadors? No. Ok. but we, it was like church boy scouts and you went and you stayed in the, I, I was a counselor and, it was like all my best friends were doing this too. So much fun. We were in each other's weddings and everything but it was fun because it was terrible at the same time. the kids would come, they're all like elementary school age kids, like second grade through sixth grade. And you would be, you would be given a, a cabin with like 20 boys and then you would be responsible for those boys for the entire week. And looking back, I'm like, how did I do that? That sounds insane.
But somehow we made it through and it was joyous and eventually I moved my way up to working at a youth camp that brought their own chaperones and I didn't have to sleep in the same cabin as the kids anymore. Way better, way, way, way better. I did that for a couple of years and then I moved my way into being a camp pastor. so I was preaching at these camps and there would be four or 500 kids, youth age kids at the camps.
And let me tell you when you are a camp pastor, you are a celebrity in that room. It is like, you are just like walking on air, walking on the clouds. You, you sit down at someone's table for lunch, they think Brad Pitt just sat at their table. It is they just have, they glow. It's just, they're nervous about what to say. They're stumbling over their words. It can really lift you up pretty high. So I'm living the dream. Ok.
I, I do this for a couple of years. I'm thinking my career is just going somewhere. I'm gonna be like the next big speaker or something and then thank you for the laugh. So I appreciate that. Bye. Oh, you know, that doesn't bother me at all. and, I get a phone call, you're gonna feel bad about that laugh in just a second. I get a phone call, after two summers of doing this, I'm signed up for the third summer and it's the camp director informing me that they've decided to go a different direction and that I'm not invited anymore to come speak for that summer.
And, I think that I had three stages of grief on the phone with them, you know, like denial at first. Like, no, I'm already signed up. You can't, you can't do that. Like I've, I've got it. Yeah. And then bargaining like, are you sure? Like, what can I do for you? I'll change. I'll do whatever anger start screaming at him. Not really, but II, I felt anger in my heart and then we hung up and the depression hit, you would have thought that I had lost a close family member because something that I loved I cherished had died and it wasn't just getting to preach God's word, but it was the approval and the accolades and the attention that came from it as well. My dream was over. I felt like my career was over.
It took me years to get to that fifth step of acceptance. The next time I preached a sermon, I was just a blubbering mess. I didn't know how to, I was stumbling over all of my words. I lived for the approval of others and I died by the approval of others. When it was taken from me, it died.
So we have to watch, not just how people's opinions are making us feel low, but how are they making us feel high? Because if you're living for the opinion of others, it can eventually backfire on you and take you out. The Bible says that this is a trap that we shouldn't fear what others think of us because we should just live for the audience of one which is God.
Now, it doesn't mean that we can't say encouraging things and it doesn't mean that we shouldn't accept these things as encouragement. When someone encourages you, you can allow it to encourage you but give all glory to God and live for His approval only. And you see how this is applicable to persecution. Because if you are criticized for your faith and you live for the approval of others, it's going to bury you.
But if you live knowing the deep approval that you have in Christ Jesus, that He loves you dearly, that He cares for you. If you are delighting yourself more in God than in the opinion of others, when you lose the approval of others, you will remain steadfast in the approval of God, knowing that He cares for you and that you are good that you have fellowship with Him, that you don't need the approval of man.
The only way to address you can't just say stop caring what other people think that won't work. That never works. OK. Try telling that to a kid that's being bullied, you know, in, in school. Well, I just don't care what they think. Yeah, that doesn't work. You have to, you have to have something to replace that with and it's delight in Christ, delight in the approval that you have received in God. And every time you're criticized or every time you're complimented, you have to go back to that approval that we have in God. Those truths have to become more real to you so that you can delight in them.
If you live by the approval of God of man, you when you are maligned and hated, you will fall away. So here are your choices as a Christian. You either isolate yourself from the world which doesn't sound like following Jesus much. OK. That's the Christian bubble mentality. Many people have done this or you conform to the ways of the world, which is the undercover Christian that really just assimilates into being a part of the gang. Or you are willing to learn and live for the pleasure of God because you'll be crushed.
If you don't do one of the other two things learn and live for the pleasure of God, I encourage you to live in and for the pleasure of God, it will free you from the tyranny of others' opinions and allow you to experience the pleasure of God.
Friends, we can live with that threat and reality of persecution because we know that the worst thing that could ever happen to us has already happened. We can be cast out, we can be canceled, we can even have our bodies killed for our faith. But the worst thing that could happen to us is abandonment from God to receive what we actually deserve, which is the wrath of God for our sins. And that's already happened at, at, at Calvary where Jesus bore the sins of the whole world, the world that hated him. He bore the sins of the world. Same word for he so loved the world that he gave his own life to save us. Because through his crucifixion and resurrection, we have life.
We don't have to fear the worst thing happening to us. It's already happened. Oddly enough, Jesus was condemned by a religious mob. He's canceled, he's crucified. But when we look at his persecution, we recognize that it is the apex, not only of his life. What we always talk about the jewelry we wear, representing that is the cross. It's not only the apex of his life, it's the apex of human history and the people who were persecuting him and killing him, they thought they were offering service to God.
And the funny thing is, ironically, they were quite accurate, but it was not the service that they thought they were serving because they condemned him. He bore the penalty even for their sins because he loved so much. You see, Christianity should eliminate this tribalism thing in us because it says no longer do I condemn you if you're in the other group, but I love my enemies. I let them in just as Jesus loved his enemies and let them in.
So friends, the mobs are still out there for sure. They're not going to disappear. But we have to be a loving, peaceful presence in the face of hatred and well meaning expulsion. And these things are difficult and I'll be praying for you in your days ahead. And Jesus wants us though church to persist. You feel the pressures you live in the world. You know what's ahead of you persist, persist through.
We're going to take a, a time now to respond to God by receiving a sacred meal during the, the communion meal. We will have prayer counselors in the back and then after the service also, the prayer counselors will come up front. And if you'd like to pray with someone, maybe you are experiencing condemnation for your faith, maybe you have family that is in a different part of the world that experiences condemnation for their faith. Maybe you would just like to understand what it means to trust in Christ and receive the delight of God so that you can stop living for the the approval of others. We invite you to receive prayer today on any of those things.
On the night that he was betrayed, Jesus took a loaf of bread and he broke it and he said, this is my body broken for you and he took a cup of, of wine and he said this is my blood shed for you, do this in remembrance of me. And so when we participate in this meal, we were reminded that jesus' body was broken for us. His blood was shed for us and that we are united with Him in the heavenly places. So would you stand as we prepare our hearts to respond to God through song and communion and prayer.
God, we thank you for because your, your mercies never end. They're new every morning. We thank you for this message to, to withstand persecution. God, would you prepare our hearts for those who have never experienced this or who aren't actively experiencing it? God, would you prepare them? Because we know that your scripture says that we will be criticized for our faith, that we will be ostracized at times.
And God would you prepare us all to, to live vocally for you. Would you give us the message? And God, we pray for persecuted Christians, we pray that our hearts would be drawn to pray for them more often, God, we pray for the Christians in other parts of the world who are experiencing life-threatening repercussions to following you. But God, we know that it is worth it and we, we worship a God and that makes that worth it. And God would you help us to see the surpassing worth of knowing you, that we'd be willing to undergo anything to follow you with our whole lives. We ask this in Christ's name, Amen.